In some ways, the ongoing debate over the fate of eight city emergency medical technicians in Hackensack comes down to money. The city claims it will save approximately $600,000 if the eight positions are terminated by August. The affected EMTs, along with their union representatives and supporters, decry the potential loss of their jobs.

Money was the issue once again when the implication of an alleged misappropriation of funds during the May 6 Hackensack City Council meeting led Mayor Jorge Meneses to order police to remove local activist Arlene Schatz from the council chambers. Schatz, the president of the Hackensack Taxpayers Association, was escorted from the room by two Hackensack police officers after a protracted exchange between Schatz and the assembled city council, including Meneses.

Several times during the verbal altercation, Schatz referred to an alleged "deal" made between the municipal authorities and Hackensack University Medical Center. Critics of the plan to fire the eight EMTs have suggested that such an arrangement was made in order that the city would approve the hospital’s plan to build a new cancer center. The eight EMTs, currently under Hackensack Fire Department command, would be subsequently replaced by workers hired by the hospital, according to the plan’s opponents. City officials have strongly and repeatedly denied that any such agreement was made.

During the public comments segment of the meeting, Schatz made a pointed reference to an alleged agreement before the council and an assembled crowd of close to 80 residents.

"There is no way…that you took the fire department, emergency medical services, or the residents into consideration when you made this deal," she said. "This was a deal that someone is going to profit from, someone is going to benefit from, but it’s not us."

"Should the fire department decide to file an injunction on you to prevent you from going into a deal with the hospital…we will do our very best to get a petition going to get it on the ballot in November," Schatz continued. "Let the residents of Hackensack decide what they want this city to do."

Immediately after this comment, Meneses decisively acted.

"When someone accuses this council of taking money… " he began, motioning for the officers to remove Schatz.

"No one said anything about money," Schatz retorted.

Meneses was then interrupted by boos as Schatz complied and was escorted from council chambers. Meneses then made a motion to close the meeting to the public, which ultimately was not seconded.

For Meneses, it’s about time and respect

After the meeting, Meneses spoke to Hackensack Chronicle about why he decided to have Schatz removed from the premises.

"Her five minutes were already up," he said, a reference to the allowed amount of time allotted to each member of the public who wishes to speak at council meetings. "When people accuse me of stealing money, that bothers me. I really take offense at that."

"People have been disrespecting the council and (City Manager Stephen Lo Iacono), and I want to cut that out right away," Meneses continued. "You can say anything, but you have to treat me with respect… My main concern is to keep the meetings at a decent level… We have to be civilized."

When asked about when municipal authorities can legally remove members of the public from council meetings, City Attorney Joseph Zisa responded that these types of situations are assessed on a "case by case basis."

"It’s up to the discretion of the council," Zisa added, pointing to the contentious tone that has prevailed at city council meetings during the past six to eight weeks, when the EMT controversy erupted.

While Zisa believes that the mayor can use that discretion to remove disorderly individuals from meetings, he also said, "I have not read the statutes to say that one way or the other."

Meneses further noted that he believed that Schatz was the first person to be removed from a council meeting since the 2005 election, when the present council took office.

In a letter to the editor (Hackensack Chronicle, May 16, page 6), Schatz described her expulsion as being "a totally unwarranted and tactless act."

"The council meetings have gotten a bit ‘rowdy’ since our city has been made aware of this council’s decision to terminate the EMS unit of our fire department," she wrote. "Perhaps being loud has become the only way to be heard."

Battle lines still drawn

The two sides of the EMT debate remain at odds, with neither side willing to back down from their respective positions.

After the May 6 council meeting, Hackensack firefighter John Linquito, president of International Association of Fire Fighters Local 2081, which represents the EMTs, spoke about what he believes the future may hold regarding the continuing controversy.

"It’s probably going to get rough," he said, noting that while he has met with Lo Iacono several times, the city council had "not reached out whatsoever."

"Lawyers are probably going to get involved," Linquito added, stating that litigation would most likely take place before the targeted August termination of the eight EMTs, with an injunction to stop the move possible.

"We wouldn’t like to do that to the city," he said. "We want to reconcile this. We understand financial constraints. But I’m telling you, it’s not these eight guys. It’s a tough fight, and it’s going to have to get tougher."

In a May 9 interview with Hackensack Chronicle, Lo Iacono reiterated the city’s position when asked about potential future negotiations with fire department and EMT union representatives.

"I wouldn’t categorize it as negotiations," he said. "My position is that I’ll always talk. But a decision has been made. We are moving forward."

"I absolutely think that what we are doing is the right thing for the city," Lo Iacono continued, adding that he was making an effort to find jobs for the potentially displaced EMTs.

Regarding any prospective litigation, Lo Iacono realizes that it could be on the horizon.

"I think that there is a possibility of litigation now, but everything that you do has litigation written all over it in government these days," he said. "I’d be irresponsible to think that there is no chance of litigation."

E-mail: bonamo@northjersey.com